All In: Student Pathways Forward
This podcast focuses on elevating community college student voices to shape inclusive higher education and workforce development policies, practice and partnerships that create economic mobility.
All In: Student Pathways Forward
Treasure Valley Community College (TVCC) Student Jessica Schooley, TVCC President Dr. Dana Young & Head of Design Programs at Education Design Lab, Dr. Leslie Daugherty
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In this episode host Marc Goldberg interviews Treasure Valley Community College student Jessica Schooley, Treasure Valley Community College president Dr. Dana Young, and the head of design programs at Education Design Lab, Dr. Leslie Daugherty.
Jessica talks about the value of stackable credentials in her Natural Resources program along with the holistic supports provided by college staff and faculty and partner agencies like Worksource Oregon. She also describes the work-based learning internship that has led to a great employment opportunity in her field.
President Young shares her reflections from Jessica’s interview and emphasizes the importance of employer partnerships for the college, especially in a rural community to provide upskilling and reskilling training for residents, and how they support overall economic vitality of the region.
Leslie describes Education Design Lab’s work collaborating with colleges across the country focused on new majority learners, non-degree credentials of value and rural colleges grounded in their human centered design approach that generates new solutions for learners, employers and communities.
The All In: Student Pathways Forward podcast is a part of Oregon’s participation in the National Skills Coalition SkillSPAN network and supported by the Lumina Foundation.
Introduction
SPEAKER_04Welcome to the All-Lead Student Pathways For Podcast, focused on elevating community college student voices, along with those of college executives, policymakers, and higher education advocates to take the books of policies, practice, and partnerships. This is the host, Mark Goldberg, and this season the podcast features students of quality, career pathways, and non-degree credential programs, which has been a critical strategy in program design, particularly for adult learners looking to reskill or upskill programs that are sustainable and accelerate pathways that propel education and career progression. Episodes continue to center Oregon Community College students, but I'm excited to broaden the focus to future learners at community colleges in other states, who are leaders in the quality non-degree credential world. Thanks for listening in. And the head of design programs at Education Design Lab, Dr. Leslie Darley. Jessica talks about the values of her staff's credentials in her natural resources program, along with the holistic support provided by college staff and faculty and partner agencies. Jessica describes the work-based learning internship that's led to a great employment opportunity in her field. President Young shares the reflections from Jessica's interviews and emphasizes the importance of employer partnerships for the college, especially in a rural community, to provide upskilling and reskilling training for residents and support overall economic vitality for the region. Leslie describes Education Design Labs that work collaborating with colleges across the country, focused on new majority learners, non-degree credentials of value, and rural colleges, grounded in their human-centered design approach that generates new solutions for learners, employers, and communities.
Interview - TVCC student Jessica Schooley
SPEAKER_04Welcome, Jessica, to the All-In Student Pathways Board podcast.
SPEAKER_03Hi.
SPEAKER_04Thanks for joining me today. And I wanted to start by asking you if you could talk about your journey to Treasure Valley Community College and why you chose to enroll in courses there.
SPEAKER_03Well, I came to Treasure Valley Community College through WorkSource. And what led me to WorkSource is I was coming out of a bad situation in my life where I wanted new direction. And upon being basically released back into the community, WorkSource was my first go-to place to get me re-acclimated into job finding. A gentleman over there, Doug, he planted the seed that, you know, you could go to college if you're on Snap through the DHS. And so pretty much I went home that day and I mauled that over and I was like, well, I'm gonna give it a shot because I would love to go back to college. I had no clue. I had been thinking about it and thinking about it for years. So I applied for TVCC and I got accepted. I was pretty shocked and amazed that I did get accepted because I did have back student loans from attending Boise State University in my 20s. So I've been attending TVCC since 2022. It's been an awesome experience, and I'm learning so much and my skills in the community and my leadership skills, gaining more confidence and everything. So pretty much work source is the one that directed me. And then everybody else that I've come in contact with at TVCC.
SPEAKER_04Thank you for sharing that. And that's such an interesting journey to start at the WorkSource Center, which is Oregon's one-stop system for individuals who are looking to improve their skills towards job opportunities. And the fact that a worksource staff person promoted the college in terms of programs that are available and ways to build new skills and work towards a career. And I'm curious if you could share a little bit more about what you're studying at Treasure Valley.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I've already accomplished my conservation technician certificate, natural resources is conservation technician. Then I am going for my natural resources in range and forest technician, my wildland fire management, wildfire technician certificate, my one-year certification, and then wildfire management associate of applied science, and my natural resources in associates of applied sciences. And basically, those associate degrees come from working through all these certificates, and those certificates pile into these associates' degrees, which it's just amazing how they have compiled these certificates. So you're actually working towards an associate's degree. And then if you want to further into a four-year college or whatnot, and that's something I've been mauling around, but I wouldn't have that option if they weren't laid out the pathway of how to do that. You're working on this certificate, and then at the same time, you're knocking out all these classes for an applied science associate's degree. So it's pretty neat.
SPEAKER_04That's such a great description of the model of stackable credentials and quality career pathways that we have in Oregon of that lead to further education and better jobs in the future. I want to just back up a little bit and ask from your experience at Treasure Valley, what's been the biggest highlight so far as a student?
SPEAKER_03I'd say my biggest highlight so far is getting that first certificate. It just showed that the work that I'm putting in is bringing back that reward. Getting to network and meet good people that have my best interest at hand that want to see me succeed. That's a really huge highlight to me. It's hard sometimes when you feel like there's not a lot of good out there coming from out of bad circumstances and then coming back into a community and finding all these good people. It goes all the way from work source over to TVCC, my church community, my work community. It's this the whole broad basis of the community here in Ontario, Oregon. You don't find that everywhere. A community of people that I am blessed with today.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, that's great. It's awesome. And I think the other thing you said too is just that first credential and building a sense of accomplishment and there's almost currency to that, right? So that certificate, that first credential can lead to the first job opportunity in your field and natural resources, and also potentially a motivator to keep going. Yes, very much so. I wanted to ask you the opposite side of that question. Could you describe any challenges you faced in pursuing your education at Treasure Valley?
SPEAKER_03I would say it was working graveyard shifts and then going to school during the week. That was probably one of my biggest challenges. It wasn't easy. There's some days I don't even know how I did it. Other than that, pretty much the trust in the process and trust in the people that I have supporting me, it all worked out. That's what kind of schedule I needed in order to get through this chunk of these classes and get me towards that first certificate and get to where I am today.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, and I think that's a very common challenge for students who are coming back to school and have jobs that they need to pay the bills.
SPEAKER_03Yep.
SPEAKER_04I appreciate you sharing that. And now I want to come back to this topic of certificates and quality credentials. This season's podcast is featuring students and graduates like yourself of quality credential or certificate programs that are shorter than an associate's degree and prepare students for career opportunities as well as to continuing their education in an accelerated manner. I wanted to ask you what is a quality credential or certificate program to you? And has your Treasure Valley Community College credential fit into whatever your definition is of a quality credential? And if so, how?
SPEAKER_03I would say that the quality credential or certificate program for me would be something that aligns to something I'm passionate about, something that I fully am engaged in, that inspires me to want to be of service, learn new skills, enhance my professional development. And I feel like I've gotten that from TVCC. I have been guided and directed and pretty much mentored, I would say. This program gives me what I've needed so I can build the dream that I've always had, that I lost along the way.
SPEAKER_04It's really helpful, I think, in listening to you describe what a quality certificate program would be. It aligns with your passion, it's engaging and inspiring. You're able to learn skills that enhances your professional development. And in that program, you're directed and mentored. And I am reflecting on your description of the program you're in, and you touched on having these certificates that count towards a degree. And is that a part of a quality credential to you?
SPEAKER_03Oh, absolutely. Charlotte, she diagrammed it all out. These are the classes you got to take, and this is that certificate right there that you're working towards. But these all go into this associate's degree. And I was like, oh, I finally had that light bulb moment. Oh, that's how that works, you know, knowing that I'm working towards something even bigger than I even knew I was stepping into. It's just that driving force that it's like, I don't even want to stop. It's just broadening the view of what I thought my future was gonna be. It's really a beautiful feeling to know that I'm progressing in ways that I almost thought were impossible. And it's it's amazing.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, that's really incredible. And just the way that you describe that encapsulates, I think, the hopes of college leaders that have designed programs like that so students can see the possibilities and how you just describe that is truly inspiring. Thanks, Mark. So as you've described what a quality certificate is in that experience at Treasure Valley and the benefit of a stackable credential in that, I wanted to ask you what elements of the credential program that you've enrolled in at TVCC have been most helpful to you in completing it.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, you get that initial certificate and you're like, oh yeah, that's so exciting. I'm so proud. And then when you look at it again, you're already working on two more certificates. And then it's just a continuous building block, the one-on-one you get with individuals and the way they help guide me and give me every little seat I need. So I understand. And Charlotte over at TVCC, she's a big entity of how I've been able to take these classes and pay for them. I know it comes mainly from this steps to success, the STEP program, the pathway program. They help give grants, scholarships. This season I got scholarships and grants, workforce. They have helped tremendously through the financial process. They provide me assistance down to even paying partial of my cell phone bill and my internet. You need that when you're in school. I'm pretty sure they've helped pay some of my classes. I would like to talk about my professor, Mr. Nichols. He's been one of my main professors through most of my classes. And he has done nothing but direct me right into the right courses. It just boils down to all that work source and TVC working as a unit. They make it so people like me can accomplish the dreams that they've had set in them for who knows how long. And it's possible.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, that's amazing to hear that's the way that those two organizations between work source and the college are leveraging and maximizing their resources to support students. And just for folks outside of Oregon to clarify, when you talked about steps to success and the STEP grant, which is Oregon's version of SNAP employment and training. I appreciate you sharing all of that. And it actually is a nice segue to talk about employment. And I know that you're working in your field. So wanted to ask you if you could talk about your current job. How did you find it? And how did the college program prepare you for it?
SPEAKER_03Well, the professor, Mr. Nichols, and any of the other professors, they post jobs. My current job, it came through for an internship. The Bureau of Land Management BLM employees in Vell, they came to the college. They had this big huge seminar introduction for how to fill out your application, your resume on USA jobs. They did a hundred interns in a hundred days, and that's what that seminar introduction was for. That was so helpful. Literally, when they break it down step by step, they still tell you, hey, if you think that basically you got the qualifications covered, just go ahead and apply because the worst thing they're going to tell you is no, but do it until they tell you no. So that's when I applied for an intern position, was from that seminar that they came over at TVCC. I know that had a lot to do with Mr. Nichols corresponding and getting these opportunities to us, and they're right there.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, that's such a great description of an important employer partner, Bureau of Land Management, to the Natural Resources Program. And all of those connections that the faculty make to provide those internship and or job opportunities are really an aspect of the program to apply the skills that you're learning in your courses to an employment setting, right?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, towards that future career.
SPEAKER_04So I wanted to ask you a little bit more about your current job. So what do you like most about it? And what characteristics make it a quality job?
SPEAKER_03What I like most about my job, there is tons of opportunity. There's tons of training. And I have an amazing, wonderful supervisor who helps line field days up for me. And she's always making it happen where I can get certain trainings or get into the field. I'm not only getting experience in what I'm really interested in, was the fire aspect, but my interest is growing in other areas, basically wildlife, getting to know the lands, the plants within the office of the BLM, getting so many opportunities. It's like I do have those options to come all over and be like, so does this really what direction I want to go?
SPEAKER_04So it sounds like with your current job having opportunities for training and also exposure to other areas within this broad field.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_04It sounds like your supervisor and the organization has invested in you to provide better awareness of the different pathways you can take your career in this field and be thinking about what you enjoy most out of all the different areas and natural resources.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Well, thanks for describing that. And I want to come back now to the college and thinking about Treasure Valley Community College and your experience as a student. From your perspective, Jessica, what type of college policies could make it easier for students in credential programs, certificate programs like yours, who may also be juggling work like you have, other responsibilities, and in some cases, including parenting?
SPEAKER_03I feel like I have been taken care of. I have been very well advised, coached, mentored in every area. I got a job that worked around my school schedule. It's almost like everything that's been working on the outside of the circle, like on that little centerpiece, but everything on the outer ring of it, it's like one big unit of people making it happen for me. They have made sure that I've been able to make this journey as easy as possible. The scheduling of the classes just always seem to line up to what I need. How does it happen that I get into fresh start and then I get a little bit of financial aid when I go down to part-time? There's people that want to help you succeed. And it's just taking that step forward and keep pushing yourself. I don't have that juggling of being a parent. So it's hard for me to really speak on that aspect. I guess I can be the outsider, kind of having a perspective. I don't know what they offer in those types of areas. Like, do they offer childcare? Do they offer funding for daycare? Because I know just from family members that daycare is just tremendous.
SPEAKER_04I think from what you said, it sounds like if there were any policies that would be helpful, it's to figure it out behind the scenes so that students don't have to worry about it. So if that could be have conversations with employers that are hiring students so that they understand that they need to be flexible with their work schedules because students need to be able to enroll in the classes so that they can complete the courses towards the certificate, towards the degree. And then it's also the college making sure that the classes are designed so that they're available and accessible for folks who are working. It also means that there's conversations behind the scenes with Work Source Center or whoever else to be like, how can we cover the costs when a student is going to reduce their work schedule so that they can continue on and don't have to drop out of school because they can't afford it. And so a lot of that is really creating policies and systems that put students in the middle that are student-centered, so that you don't have to worry about those bumps along the road and you can truly focus on your studies.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, you summed that up perfectly. Being at the BLM, one of their main focuses is making sure that I still attend classes, that I still am working towards the certificates and everything that I'm working towards.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, that's great. And I think that is a wonderful model for other colleges and their workforce partners and employer partners to consider. I wanted to ask a similar question. What's the most important thing that educators, career coaches, and others that are working to assist students succeed can do to help most?
SPEAKER_03I feel that it's that one-on-one in-person meetings that investing their time to give to me as an individual has really helped me come out of my shell. It's helped me confide in people that normally I have a hard time trusting that somebody's got my best interest at hand. And it's really built that confidence that there are people that do have our best interest at hand.
SPEAKER_04So it sounds like for you and your recommendations for college leaders is to make sure that faculty and staff and administrators are there for students as you're working toward your educational and career goals. Question I wanted to ask you next, what advice would you give to other students from your own experience?
SPEAKER_03Some of my advice is don't be afraid to approach your professor and say, hey, I have this opportunity that I'd like to be a part of. How do you feel about me missing class this weekend? Can you let me know what you think about that? And if it's going towards what you're going to school for, your professor or your advisors are probably most likely gonna welcome that. I have a new professor, Mr. Thomas, this term. I went to him and I said, Hey, I want to go to this women in wildfire boot camp. And it's during school time. The professors they want to make sure you're getting those opportunities. So they work with you. I just like to say anybody hears this, don't be so hard on yourself. Don't give up on yourself no matter what age you are. The impossible can become the possible, and I really do believe that because really, if you dig down deep enough, you got it in you, and you got people that really want to see you go towards your dreams and they want to help make that dream possible. And you're gonna have those hard days. You're gonna be like, Man, I don't even want to move right now. I don't want to do this right now, but it's the fact that you just get up and go and show up, and that's what counts. Because then once you're there, you're like, Oh gosh, I'm so glad I made it. I am so glad I made it.
SPEAKER_04That's great advice for other students, believing in yourself and continuing forward. And there's a whole group of folks here to support you in doing that. So appreciate you sharing that. I want to zoom out a little bit as we get close to the end here and ask how has your experience at Tripoli? Your value community college been impactful in your life?
SPEAKER_03It's been one of the biggest taking graces in my life. It's given me purpose, it's given me direction, it's given me confidence, it's made me really resilient in a lot of ways. It's given me that knowledge that there are good people out there. Because my background, I've I've had a lot of not good people in my life, and I just always was like, there's good, and so what am I doing wrong in my own life? And TVCC has given me that direction, so I am on this path that I'm starting to see more of the good instead of that bad. I have this saying that I always say to myself, look through the ugly and behold the beautiful, because there's more beauty, beauty than ugly. If you really are looking, there's more beautiful in this life than there is the bad and the ugly. And TVCC has really just brought that colorful existence back into what I feel like I lost. Just the care from all the people there. It's impacted my life tremendously. I think it's helped me to continue to want to stay sober. It's been one of those things that helps me realize that there's more than just a drink out there to cope with things. I have somebody I can go talk to if I need to. You know, if I'm struggling, I'm just going over and have a conversation with Charla. I've had some emotional days with Charla, and she's been there for me, you know, knowing that I can go to somebody and just be like, yeah, I'm kind of struggling here. It's kind of stressful. It's emotional for me because coming from the background that I've come from, my coping skill was pick up a beer, that'll make it better. I don't have that desire in my life today because my life has been changed by going to TVCC and pursuing my dreams and just knowing that there's a bigger purpose for me than where I was headed in life. You know, making my parents proud, keeping the worry from them so they don't have to worry about me. Those things really matter to me, and making sure I make the people that have been supporting me and rooting for me, I hope I can make them all proud too.
SPEAKER_04I'm certain that you are already and will continue to make that whole community proud. I just want to thank you for being so open about your journey and your reflections on the experience of Treasure Valley. That's extremely powerful. And I feel like, as you described, making it a colorful existence, that's an extremely beautiful metaphor and imagery and the impact that your experience at Treasure Valley has had on you. Thank you for sharing so much. I did want to ask you as we wrap up if there's anything else that you'd like to share about your experience at Treasure Valley for this podcast episode.
SPEAKER_03My experience at TBCC, I don't have all the words to express what it's done in my life. Enlightening, fulfilling, gratifying. It's almost like it's filled a void that I had. It is giving me a greater purpose. It's changed my life in the greatest of ways. And it's a great school. And I just thank everybody. And I thank you, Mark, for having me on this today.
SPEAKER_04Well, thank you, Jessica, for spending time sharing your experience, your reflections, your recommendations. It's really been an honor to get the chance to know you and have this conversation and learning about the program that you've been in with stackable certificates along the way. And then as you described your experience as an employee at BLM and the way that they have supported you as a worker and truly inspired by your journey. So thank you so much, Jessica.
SPEAKER_03You're welcome. Thank you so much, Mark.
Interview - TVCC President Dr. Dana Young
SPEAKER_04I'd like to welcome my next guest to the podcast today, Dr. Dana Young, the president of Treasure Valley Community College. Welcome, Dr. Young, to the All In Student Pathways Forward Podcast.
SPEAKER_01Hello, Mark. How are you today?
SPEAKER_04Good. Thanks so much for joining me.
SPEAKER_01It's my pleasure.
SPEAKER_04Well, I figured it would be helpful to start out and ask you if you could share a bit more about Treasure Valley Community College for listeners that may not be as familiar with the institution.
SPEAKER_02Sure. So Treasure Valley Community College is located in beautiful Ontario, Oregon, which is on the eastern edge of the state. We are located about three miles away from Idaho. And we serve around 5,000 students. We're in this beautiful rural setting. Our students are about 35% career technical education and about 65% transfer students. And we also run a full adult basic education ESL program, as well as a lot of workforce training and community education. So that's a little bit about who we are and where we're located.
SPEAKER_04Thank you for sharing that. And from what I recall with Treasure Valley Community College's district, it's a rather large area that you serve. Is that right?
SPEAKER_02It is. It is a very large area. So we serve most of Eastern Oregon. And most recently, we have also taken over all of the Department of Corrections education in Umatilla and Moro counties as well.
SPEAKER_04Oh wow. Well, appreciate you sharing a bit more about the institution. And I wanted to ask you about the conversation I had with a Treasure Valley Community College current student and graduate of a certificate program, Jessica Schooley, and what your overall reactions were.
SPEAKER_02Yes, Jessica is amazing. She came to us through our work source center, and she was nervous but determined. And she's very smart, very driven. So she came in and said, Well, I'm going to do this career pathway certificate. And now she has found herself a very comfortable home in our natural resources department. And she is going to get her two-year degree in natural resources and go to work for the BLM. That's her plan.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, it's really inspiring to get to know her and hear her experience and her insights. But wanted to ask you from the conversation I had with Jessica, what did you hear that highlighted work that Treasure Valley is doing well and the value of your quality career pathways that offer credentials that meet students' educational and career goals?
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So Jessica, who is supported by Charla Wheeler's office, which is our STEP program. Treasure Valley Community College, through its STEP program and some other scholarship resources that we have, have been able to lift her up and give her the financial support, along with a few of the other agencies here in town that have been very supportive of her receiving aid. So the Training Employee Consortium, so we call that tech, is in our work source center. They had some funds available for her, and we've been able to pay for her books and supplies, and she's working.
SPEAKER_04So Oregon SNAP Employment and Training Program, which I know has been a really important resource for many students across the state at community colleges. And then, as you touched on, the fact that she is now working with the Bureau of Land Management, BLM, and she really described that experience in the value of it, the culture at BLM and the support in giving her opportunities to explore different areas that the BLM has work in. It sounded like it's a really strong partnership that the college has with a local employer.
SPEAKER_02Yes, we have very strong connections with the Bureau of Land Management. BLM provides internships for our students, then they hire them. Typically, as soon as they're graduated, they will then hire them and encourage them to go on even for their bachelor's degrees. And BLM will help those students pursue that bachelor's degree. They're going to be building a facility here at our local airport. We're really excited about having them basically in our backyard.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. And with Jessica describing the chance to hear from BLM providing some guidance on how to navigate their application process and how to tailor their resume and their application materials, both for internships and employment. Not every employer would do that. So it just sounds like it's a real commitment in both directions.
SPEAKER_02It really is. I don't know if you've ever taken a look at one of those applications, but they are daunting. And I think a lot of students wouldn't fill them out if they hadn't had the relationship with BLM. BLM gets it. They know what they have to do to get good employees. They know these internships and helping students fill out these applications are critical for their future. So I just think they're smart.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. And clearly they see the benefit and value and the quality of the natural resources programs, certificates and degrees to both support their own hiring needs, but potentially their upskilling needs of existing workers.
SPEAKER_02Yes, I would say they get it. And they work hard at connecting. Our wildland fire instructor actually still works for them. He's a crew boss and he goes out and fights fire half of the year, and then he teaches for us the other half of the year. And he knows the model that needs to be in place for those firefighters to get more education and continue moving up. So we like to hire people that are current in the industry. And you couldn't be much more current than Max Mayeda.
SPEAKER_04That's outstanding. So I want to come back to just the theme of this season of the All In podcast, and that's quality, career pathways, and non-degree credential programs. And so, how do these programs support the college's institutional priorities and mission?
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So we get it. We understand that sometimes folks need to start out in the non-credit programs to try something out, to see if it's a fit for them, to see what all is out there. And so we run a number of zero credit programs where students can jump in and they can get a state certification or a federal certificate that says you have met this skill level. And so we do a lot of that. And actually, Wildland Fire, we run a full-blown zero credit program and we train and retrain a lot of the folks that fight fires in Oregon. That really is the goal to get folks in, get them a skill set so they can, if they want to, get employed or to get paid a little bit more in their current position. They come and they take a lot of the zero credit. And then our goal, of course, is to say, and also, did you know we have this? So a lot of our students start here, they start small, and they really need that sense of confidence of I can do this. And the support system that's around them, Charla is like their personal cheerleader. And we encourage them, keep going, keep going. And like I said, we have a wide array, everything from American Heart Association to Welding, just to use the full alphabet. We have everything. And if we don't have it, and someone sees a need for it, and we do our research and say, oh, you know what? There are several people that need this. We develop it and then offer it. The other thing is, is a lot of times we take it to business and industry. So they'll say, we need to have ESL classes in the evening for our workers. And so we'll go up to one of our manufacturing companies and we teach ESL. Or we need industrial safety. So we go out to different manufacturing plants and do safety training and first aid and CPR and all of those things that folks need on a regular basis. That gives us an opportunity to talk to their employees about other things that we have to offer.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, it feels like those employer partnerships are key because it's both supporting hiring needs with training in place and then upskilling needs that can be much more customized to support workers in their skill development, retention, and career progression. And I think going back to where you started, the career pathway programs, the zero credit workforce programs, it sounds like are really important access strategy for certain populations that may not come in the door of the college thinking about a traditional transfer degree or even maybe a two-year CTE degree. But as they come in through those types of programs and they also then have a whole support system in place to think about what's next. And I would imagine too, with all the work Treasure Valley as institutions across Oregon and across the country have really embraced the guided pathways model. It seems like it's kind of like this is where you are here on the map. And here ways that you can move forward. Here are the programs and the resources and the supports that can accelerate that and simplify that so you can see how to get to the next level or what your career trajectory can be.
SPEAKER_02Yes, well said. That is exactly it. That is exactly correct. And we do participate in the guided pathways and we have our posters up all over campus so that we can show people here's where you are, here's where you could be. And a lot of the students that come through the door come through those adult basic ed, ESL. We have a high school equivalency program for our migrant uh farm workers. We are an HSI institution. And a lot of times we're able to, while the students are in that high school equivalency program, we also have them take college credits. And the same with our adult basic ed, we'll say, well, let's have you take whatever they're interested in, whether it's a business class or again, welding. I use welding because that one really gets people charged up.
SPEAKER_04That's great. Well, just staying on the topic of quality career pathways or non-degree credential programs, I wanted to ask in particular for your setting, a more rural part of the state. What value do these quality career pathways and non-degree credential programs bring to the broader community that TVCC serves in supporting economic mobility for residents and also addressing regional employer hiring and training needs?
SPEAKER_02So it's huge. We start a lot of this with our local high schools as well. We've talked a lot about the adult student, but we do start them at the high school level to say if you have these certificates, by the time you graduate, you can go right to work, say for Western Trailer, Welding, or whatever the organization is. So as soon as people have these credentials, they're hired. We're in a rural community here, but the needs are great. One of the things I guess I didn't say at the very beginning is how many manufacturing plants we have. We're big in onions, the largest producer of onions in the world. There's so much that goes into getting those onions out to the market. And so we're trying to meet the employers' needs as well as the students' needs, just having enough people in industrial manufacturing, having certificates. A lot of times they get hired before they ever finish their degree because they've got those certifications and employers need them. Now we encourage students to continue, don't just go do that job and forget that by getting a degree, you can move up in that organization. And most of our employers are really good about giving people time to say, yes, I want you to go to that next step. We are working on, and I'm stumbling over the name here because we don't want to just call it renewable energy. It's really a sustainable energy systems program. We're really working on trying to put that together for our region. We have a lot of sunshine out here, so solar is a natural, but what does that look like? Trying to get that set up from starting with high school students and adult students and then moving them up into the various strands that they can go through because solar is used in everything. Renewable energy is in everything. And it's not just solar panels out in a field anymore or on a roof. It is huge. We've had the folks from the local dams here saying, how do we look at hydropower? And what does that look like? We've been exploring that and saying, what are the jobs in the area and the region? It's amazing how many opportunities there are, even in rural communities, how many opportunities there are for folks. We do career pathway certificates for all of our career and technical education programs and a few for our transfer programs. We're working on trying to develop more of those on the transfer side of things. But for all of our career and technical education programs, you can get several different career pathways certificates and nationally recognized certifications. So they can go to work at any point throughout their educational career.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, and it seems like hearing it from Jessica, the power of that first credential that leads to the first job can be extremely impactful for a student who is coming back to school, who's a first-gen student, and those quality career pathway models, it's multiple entry and exit points tied to employment. And I guess what I heard you say, Dr. Young, too, is in a rural setting, those conversations and relationships with employers, be it in manufacturing plants with the agriculture and onions, or in the evolution of the green economy, renewable energy, sustainable energy programs, or even natural resources with BLM, those conversations with employers to identify what the skills are, the jobs, and then how to develop the right programs to meet their needs and also continue to dialogue with them about how important that degree is and continued pathway in and out of education towards better jobs and careers. And so I guess what I'm hearing is just the importance in a rural community, as anywhere, but particularly in a rural community, of those relationships with employers to really understand what the jobs are, what's changing in their fields, and be able to bring that back and develop and support the right programs.
SPEAKER_02Yes. Yeah, that is so true.
SPEAKER_04Just coming back again to Jessica, and you can clearly hear from her, and I've also heard from many other students on the podcast and over the years leading career pathways programs, that they work and have a transformative impact on students' lives, as we've talked about. I wanted to ask you a question from your perspective as a long-standing college president in Oregon and a lot of expertise and insight. What data and information, if it's quantitative, qualitative, or even student testimony, do we need to be collecting and sharing to understand what works and to drive more policies and investments to support the program development and cover the cost of these programs for students?
SPEAKER_02So my number one piece of advice is we need to continue working with our legislators, our federal legislators, to get these programs eligible in an understandable way for federal financial aid. Because it's just as important for folks to get these skill sets to get to work as it is to get the degrees. And right now, all of our Federal financial aid, not all of it, but the majority of our federal financial aid is focused on individuals going for a two-year degree or higher. And if you're not doing that, your program isn't eligible. I mean, there's a way to do it. It's very complex. And they need to make it simpler for colleges to enter into and for students to understand what financial aid is available to them. And if we can work with the federal government, even the state, I have talked to Ben Cannon about this. All of our funds under the Oregon Opportunity Grant and the Oregon Promise are pointed at students getting degrees, coming to college and getting degrees. They're not eligible for that money to get non-credit skills. I think that is going to make the biggest difference for people to be able to afford it. Now, also, podcasts like this, where we can get the word out, people are starting to really listen and say, hey, what is this thing? It wasn't something that happened one time and then went away. This is continuing to go on. And I'm interested, you've got my attention, and I'm hearing these compelling stories about these students and the great work these schools are doing, continuing to get that information out to the legislature, to our governor, to federal legislators. Heck, let's just send it to the president of the United States and his wife. She's a community college person. So you know, this would be compelling for her.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Well, and appreciate your lens on that at the federal and state level, right? So no, there's been a lot of work over the last few years to figure out how to make short-term quality career pathways programs financial aid eligible with the Jobs Act and many different attempts and advocacy. And then at the state level, considering the different investments in supporting community college students. And I know there are other states that have allocated a portion of those state investments to support students in non-credit workforce training and/or shorter credit certificate programs. So there are some great models out there. And hope that Oregon will continue to explore that and appreciate your comments on the ways of telling that story through podcasts.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Thank you for joining me. And I did want to ask in terms of the future, how do you see the colleges' work at Treasure Valley in quality career pathway programs and partnerships progressing?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I see it continuing to grow. I mentioned earlier that we had taken on the contracts for the Department of Corrections. So let's not forget about our incarcerated individuals. Many of them are set to be released. And we need to be able to get those quality programs into the correctional facilities so that they will have a skill set when they come out and they can go to work. And that has been shown time and time again to reduce recidivism. We were part of the pilot group to do the second chance Pell. We've started already using federal financial aid to pay for the courses for the men that are incarcerated there. It's tricky because you need to be a coordinated effort across the state because these men get transferred around from prison to prison. So you don't want them to start something here and then be moved over to Salem or Portland and not be able to continue it. That's one way I see it growing. That's a huge population we need to serve. But in addition to that, just continuing to look at more career pathways for new programs, as well as on the transfer side, pathway certificates on the transfer side, because we don't want to forget the transfer side. It's very important.
SPEAKER_04And those milestone and momentum points are so valuable to students. As we wrap up, I just wanted to thank you, Dr. Young, for taking the time to have this conversation to talk in detail about Jessica, the TVCC amazing student, and learning more about the evolution of quality career pathways and non-degree credentials at TVCC, as well as the strong employer partnerships that are a really key piece to that. And so with that, just wanted to uh thank you for joining me for this conversation and also ask if there's anything else that you would like to share.
SPEAKER_02I think I'd just like to thank you. Thank you for having a passion for this and for carrying the message. I think this is such an important message, and to know that you are committed to it is great. And just to add on, you make these interviews so easy.
SPEAKER_04Thanks for taking the time. I know you have an extremely busy schedule. And from this conversation, continue to hear your own passion for equitable student success, for access to quality education, and the key role that the college plays in your community for students, for employers, for community organizations, and really bringing that leadership so that it's easier for students so that they can be successful. And all that goes with that. So thank you, Dr. Young, for taking the time. And it's a pleasure as always to get the chance to speak with you.
SPEAKER_02Thank you, and I appreciate it. I appreciate the opportunity to be able to talk about this great topic.
Interview - Education Design Lab Head of Design Programs - Dr. Leslie Daughterty
SPEAKER_04Welcome, Leslie, to the All in Student Pathways Forward Podcast.
SPEAKER_00Thanks, Mark. I'm excited to be here.
SPEAKER_04Appreciate you taking the time. And I wanted to start by asking you if you could share more about Education Design Lab and how the organization partners with community colleges to advance equitable student success and economic vitality.
SPEAKER_00So the lab is a nonprofit, and we just entered our 10th year of existence. The lab was founded by Kathleen Delasky, who really spent a lot of time in higher ed boardrooms. And when she was there, part of that experience was hearing so many people making decisions about policies and programs for students without students in the room. And so that was her big vision for the lab. And even when the students were in the room, were they the same students who were experiencing some of the barriers and challenges that the board was working on? So that was how the lab came to be 10 years ago. And really, what we have created is a space where administration, employers, faculty, staff, community members, and most importantly, learners can really come together to better understand what it would mean to have equitable access to opportunities for everyone living within the communities that we're serving. The lab uses an approach that's rooted in human-centered design. So it starts with a deeper understanding of the community as a whole. And what are the underlying problems to the overarching problems? So, what are we thinking that we need to solve? And then who are we trying to design and solve approaches for? So we spend a lot of time in the community with a variety of stakeholders, really asking questions, collecting feedback to better understand really the lived experiences of those who have felt historically disconnected from our higher ed institutions. At the lab, we often say if you design for everyone, you design for no one, which is why we begin with those who are most proximate to that problem we are trying to solve. In fact, just the other day, I saw a meme that depicted a group of people trying to get to class and it was snowing, and somebody was shoveling the stairs, right? And there was a ramp. And then there was a person with mobility concerns who pointed out if you shoveled the ramp before the stairs, we can all get in. And so when we think about access, when we're talking about partners, we're thinking about how we can design equitable approaches that are centering the needs of those who are most impacted by the problems that we're trying to solve.
SPEAKER_04That's really helpful background. The work that you all do in support of learners at higher education institutions and the approach that you take. And with that, I know that the lab has a lot of different initiatives and strategies, and wanted to start with the theme of the all-in podcast this season: quality career pathways and non-degree credentials of value, and ask you what role these non-degree credentials of value or quality career pathways have in the work that you do and why they are an important strategy.
SPEAKER_00So, Kathleen, I think, was very specific when she called the lab a lab, and that's how we function. That means that we really have spent the last 10 years testing, iterating, learning, and designing, both with the learners, employers, industry leaders, community college, four-year college faculty and staff. And what we have learned through that, specifically from the learners, is that they have told us that they need access to opportunities that provide faster routes to meaningful careers that lead to living wages. And that employers, on the flip side, want and need employees who both have those technical skills in that industry and what the lab calls, and people call this many different things, really the 24st century skills that are leading to that more resilient workforce. So we really think that non-degree credentials and quality career pathways can help solve both of these needs, especially for those learners who are looking to upskill or reskill. So in the past, I feel, we'll just say me, right, that some of those pathways were often treated as more of a less than when we talked about that compared to traditional degree pathways. So a lot of times that meant that they were understaffed, under-resourced, and sometimes just really misunderstood in the larger context of quality and access. So in addition to really thinking about these opportunities as a way to expand access, the lab, along with others in the field, were looking also to shift the narrative of that piece when it comes to quality and access through a project at the lab that we call the Data Collaborative for a Skills-Based Academy. So this effort is focused really on collecting data directly from the provider or the institution and then connecting that data with national organizations, government agencies to better understand the impact these non-degree programs and short-term credentials have, longer-term partners, the institutions, and really for the vitality of industry and communities.
SPEAKER_04I'm glad that you talked about the key stakeholders and this being driven by the feedback and input from learners as well as from employers who are looking for a talent pool. And then you set it as your own experience or observation in terms of the perception of these quality career pathways or non-degree credential programs relative to a traditional two-year or four-year degree. I think from my experience working in community colleges in Oregon for almost 15 years, seen that myself and across multiple institutions. I think there is a lot of work to continue to shift that narrative and really sharing the outcomes through data and that data being quantitative and qualitative in that data collaborative. What type of data are you looking at to really shift that narrative?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's such an important question. And I think part of the focus of the data collaborative is making sure that whatever of those data structures come into place, that we also create still what I believe is so important with these non-degree pathways is open access, right? And we don't create the data asks that become exclusive and not inclusive to participation in these. And so we just finished this amazing three years working with rural colleges. And so when you talk about the qualitative piece, that's where this really comes out because the quantitative data is important and it tells us these wonderful things, but it doesn't tell us more about the lived experience of that person, how they are feeling throughout that program, what that has done as they think about themselves as leaders.
SPEAKER_04We'll come back to the rural setting in a bit, but did want to ask you a question about a related topic. And I know that the Education Design Lab has focused efforts on new majority learners who have unique lived experiences and complex lives. And in fact, I think Education Design Lab has helped shift the lexicon from what we used to consider non-traditional learners to now new majority learners. The All in Student Pathways Forward podcast over the past three seasons has also featured primarily new majority learners to elevate their voices to shape inclusive policies, practice, and partnerships. Could you talk more about ways that the Ed Design Lab is centering new majority learners in your different initiatives?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I would love to. So I think a lot of people agree that the current policies and practices in IRED were designed with the traditional learner in mind. And even though we have been talking about demographic shift for many years, again, in my opinion, institutions have been slow to respond. Also for the lab and for me, the term non-traditional creates a sense that the learner is somehow to blame when we think about these historically exclusive systems. So as the lab was exploring more and hearing from learners, really thinking about how we can move that from more of an asset-based approach. So the learners that the lab is primarily working with and have been since we're incorporated, we're thinking about really the bigger community of learners. So, how is everyone a learner? We talk about frontline workers, transfer students, single parents, non-degreed adults, first generation students, those that are coming from underinvested communities, rural learners, right? Those are all part of this new majority. And so we spend a lot of time with our partners talking to learners, listening to their stories, having them provide examples that are rooted in that learner experience of how institutions might think about supporting the learner's growth, belonging, and agency as they continue to design these inclusive policy structures and systems. And so it's our hope that by building these structures, changing these systems to work for new majority learners, that's just going to benefit every single learner that steps onto the campus. And so that's how we think about not only centering the learner voice, but continuing to embed that process within the institution so you can really think about that impact for all learners.
SPEAKER_04What an amazing model. I hope that other higher ed institutions can learn from the institutions that you're working with in really disrupting traditional policy and programmatic development work to really concentrate on new majority learners.
SPEAKER_00I think something that you said that's really central to the lab. Within this process, there are amazing pilots and prototypes that are coming out from all of these different institutions. But the overall hope is that we leave with that process as the product.
SPEAKER_04Thank you for sharing that. And I did want to ask you if you could describe the important work that the lab has led in supporting rural community colleges through the Bridges Rural Project and how this work will continue forward.
SPEAKER_00Of course. Well, I will just say that I've had the absolute privilege to spend the last three years co-designing with some of the most really innovative institutions and individuals that I've ever met. So this project, like all projects at the lab, start with a design question. For this particular design question, we were asking how might we strengthen the capacity of rural community colleges to serve as critical economic growth engines for their learners and their communities. So the five community colleges who took this journey with us were really able to expand their understanding of who they were serving, who they were not serving, what it truly means to design opportunities for service areas, and how important, again, it was to include the voices of everyone in the community as they continued to build trust, to build buy-in, to repair things within their communities. They also documented how the process itself shifted how they approach decision making and the mindset and the relationships in the communities that they serve. So we have some college transformation profiles that I would invite anyone to go and look at. You can find them on the website. These are rooted really in what we embrace as our design strategies with these five-year-old colleges, which is remembering that change is constant, that there's a never failure, always learning mindset, that relationships move at the speed of trust, what you pay attention to grows, and that there's always enough time for the right work. I always say good research leads to more research, right? So one of the big pieces of this project that we were able to tackle was how data culture and capacity impacts rural colleges, both in the understanding of how data is used for decision making and sustainability of programs and funding, but how can we continue to elevate the voices of people attending and working in rural community colleges, especially when, like we have said, they don't feel that the quantitative numbers reflect the real change happening within their communities. And also a way to communicate with policymakers to say, we might only have seven people that completed this program. But when you think about the impact on this community, that's a different story. We'd like you to hear it.
SPEAKER_04I really appreciate that background on the Rural Bridges Initiative. And I think those design principles that you elaborated on are really healthy for institutions to have in any size or geographic location, always learning and that change is constant and that the relationships evolve at the speed of trust. And that's to me the foundation of a lot of this work, especially when colleges are developing new programs or listening to stakeholders. So thank you for sharing more on that. And where does this initiative go next?
SPEAKER_00Yes, we are so excited to announce that we were funded for a next round of work with rural colleges. In this next phase of work, we're looking to bring in 12 institutions. What we would really like is to look at the emergent models that were coming out of our bridges work as well as all over the US. And now let's use the design process to think about how you could bring that to life in your own community, because all rural places are so diverse in so many different ways. So it's going to be that understanding phase of who is in your community, who is disconnected, how do we center that new majority learner voice focused on access and equity to opportunity for all, and that are for the most part, I will say, place-based.
SPEAKER_04Well, thanks for sharing more on the work that the lab is doing and will continue to do in supporting rural colleges or institutions. And speaking of rural institutions, I wanted to ask you if you had any reactions to the interview with Jessica Schoolie, the Treasure Valley Community College graduate here in Oregon, who was interviewed earlier in this episode. And if so, what themes came up that echo the experiences and stories that you've heard from other students at rural institutions?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I want to start by just thanking Jessica, her willingness to be so open with her story. I just really appreciated that. And there were a couple things that really jumped out to me when I was listening to her story and her experience at Treasure Valley. One of the first things was how Treasure Valley is thinking about aligning multiple ecosystem partners. Jessica talked about so many different people, how they really were being proactive to her needs, bringing together entities like the work source, the Bureau of Land Management. Those are just great examples of how partners can come together to provide different types of support and services. She also talked about how those connections extended into her getting her first job, right? She had the ability to blend that earn and learn experience. And so really being able to create an environment for her that got her into that first position, but then is also offering so many different ways to up. Skill or reskill or look at different options in that pathways. Something else that stood out to me about her journey was the use of stackable pathways and credentials as a way to increase growth belonging and agency. Again, key to our learner engagement framework. We're often working with people who do not see themselves as learners or perhaps have had something happen in their life. So we found through our work with stackable pathways that that can really help people in a small amount of time getting to that next step. She talked about how getting that first certificate really showed her that the work she's putting in is bringing back so many rewards and that it's also shown her that people want to see her succeed. She also talked about the importance of bringing these pathways to life through visuals and actually showing the stacks and what this looks like. She talked about how it's all diagrammed out, right? That someone took the time to help her navigate, to answer her questions. And through those crucial pieces, she's been able to broaden her view on what her future could be. So going back to that qualitative piece, this is something that doesn't come out in quantitative data. It takes a lot of intentional work and coordination through entire ecosystems to bring this experience to life for students. So I'm just, again, so thankful for Jessica and that story and to you in this podcast. So if we can continue to elevate the voices of these learners, we can continue also to elevate the tremendous work that's happening at rural community colleges all over the United States. So thank you to you. Thank you to Jessica. I really appreciate it and can see so much of the alignment with what it really means to center that learner's voice as you continue to build these inclusive practices and strategies for them.
SPEAKER_04Thank you for sharing these reflections on the conversation with Jessica and the power of this format of a deeper conversation with this student to hear about what's worked for them and where there may be opportunities for improvement and the value and importance of that qualitative story for institutions to consider, particularly in a rural setting, but really anywhere. So I wanted to build on a lot of what you've described in terms of the approach that the lab takes with institutions that you're working with and the human-centered design and really beginning your process with listening to stakeholders, listening to learners and prospective learners. And I know a lot of institutions across the country are trying to find authentic and genuine ways to listen to their students or prospective students. And I figured it would be helpful to ask you what advice you could give or suggestions for institutions that are just getting started in this as they consider the importance of new majority learners, understanding their realities, how to design policies, programs, and even partnerships to support them in this process.
SPEAKER_00Our institutions do such an amazing job serving learners. I just want to say that. This is very hard work. And I feel like everyone who is working in these community colleges is there because they want to support learners getting to their goals. But we need to ask ourselves two things. First of all, who are the learners we're serving really well? Let's call that out. Let's make sure that we recognize that we're doing some really great things. And then the opposite of that would be to talk about so who do we perhaps struggle with or who do we not serve as well as we would like to? What does that look like? What are the questions that we need to ask them? And how can we access that, recognizing that there may be some trust that is missing in that relationship? So, how can we do that? Who in the community perhaps do they have more trust with than us? Where's that relationship? And so start there and then just continue to build, right? And continue to listen and continue to act.
SPEAKER_04That's extremely helpful. And just starting with those two questions and then thinking about how do you bring in those communities that you haven't served as effectively. Well, I've learned a lot from this conversation, Leslie. I really appreciate you taking the time. I'm always inspired by the work that the lab is doing from your work and new majority learners and the rural bridges. I did want to ask if there's anything else you'd like to add for this conversation.
SPEAKER_00Just again, thank you to you. And just a reminder: if you are a rural college that's interested in this next phase of work, it is an expression of interest. It's not a full proposal because, again, we recognize the capacity and the work that's happening in rural places and spaces, and we want more institutions to be able to access this opportunity. So there's expression of interest. You can find that on our website. You can contact me. We are collecting them till January 12th. And then we're hoping to launch in the spring. We're just really excited to continue to get to work in these amazing places and spaces.
SPEAKER_04That's fantastic. Thanks for sharing those details. And thanks again, Leslie, for spending the time and having this conversation.
SPEAKER_00Thank you.
SPEAKER_04Well, that will do it for this episode of the podcast. We'll be back next month with our next episode. This is the host again, Mark Goldberg, and I wanted to say thank you for listening in and for being all in on student success.